[00:00:00] Hello everyone, and a very warm welcome to another episode of The Talk Room series of podcasts. I’m Wendy, and today we are diving into the incredibly interesting and important subject of insomnia. You’ll be looking at this and how you can be your best self, even when faced with this particular challenge by levering, by leveraging the power of counseling and therapeutic support.
For those who are joining us for the first time, I would like to introduce my co-presenter, Ian. Ian is a senior accredited National Counseling and Psychotherapy Society member, and the founder of Hope Therapy and Counseling Services. Hope is a counseling and coaching organization offering support throughout the entire UK for wide range of concerns and challenges, and works with goal setting on a very regular [00:01:00] basis.
Welcome, Ian. Thank you, Wendy. Thank you. And and let me return the favor by introducing you as well. Wendy is a highly experienced CBT psychotherapist who’s been involved in the field of mental health and general wellbeing for well over 35 years now. We’re both passionate.
About helping people navigate their mental health, their relationship, and their wellbeing journeys, and today’s discussion about insomnia is a really crucial part in that. Yes, absolutely. So Ian, maybe you could just start by saying a little bit more about what is insomnia and why we are talking about it today.
Yeah really good question Wendy. So thank you for that. And insomnia is a common yet really quite misunderstood difficulty, and it goes beyond the [00:02:00] occasional restless night that many of us experienced from time to time. So if we think about it within a clinical context, insomnia. Refers to persistent problems with sleep that occur several times a week and continue over a period of weeks or even months.
And it can affect people of all backgrounds and presents in a number of different ways. So the most recognized symptom is that. Trouble in just falling asleep at the beginning of the night. But insomnia can also involve waking up frequently during the night, waking up much earlier than is intended, and just being unable to return back to sleep again afterwards.
Or feeling as say, sleep has just not been in any way [00:03:00] restorative or refreshing. So it’s important to note that insomnia is classified in terms of duration. We can have acute insomnia, which is short term. It’s often triggered by some sort of external factor. Such as some sort of stress that that might be going on in terms of impacting our environment.
So generally it, it resolves once the associated trigger has passed. Then in contrast, we have what we refer to as chronic insomnia, and that parti that persists for at least three nights a week and lasts for three months or longer. And this extended period of disrupted sleep. Can have a really quite a profound impact on things like [00:04:00] mood, on concentration, on our relationships with others.
Both work and personal and just generally our overall wellbeing as well. Insomnia can arise either as a primary condition but it can also be linked to a range of other factors as well. So things like stress or anxiety, physical health conditions or lifestyle habits. People who are neurodiverse.
So people on the autistic spectrum or who present with things like ADHD or who live with long term health issues may also notice that sleep difficulties can be a common challenge within those experiences as well. Okay. And yeah, that’s very interesting. Amazing effects there.
I’m wondering if you’re able to give a bit more of an idea about how just prevalent insomnia is. [00:05:00] Just maybe in terms of the entire population, but also. In terms of maybe how common it’s for people to speak to a therapist about these things. Yeah, absolutely. Again, a really important question.
So if we look at that firstly in overall terms the NHS tells us that in 2022, one in three adults regularly experience some sort of sleep sleep problem. And if we think. More widely, if we think globally, between 10 and 30% of adults have estimated have what we might define as chronic insomnia with up to 50% reporting occasional symptoms.
And that came from the world. Sleep Society in 2023. And it’s really interesting to note that women are about one and a half times more likely than men to experience in insomnia according to the Sleep Foundation as well. [00:06:00] I, but then if we look at those people, struggling specifically with some sort of mental health challenge.
Those numbers go up considerably. So around 50 to 80% of people seeking help for mental health concerns such as anxiety or depression report, ongoing sleep difficulties according to the Royal College of Psychiatrists. And insomnia is a core symptom and sometimes a trigger for many anxiety related conditions as well.
Things like generalized anxiety disorder, post-traumatic stress disorder. And and really interestingly, people with chronic insomnia are four times more likely. To experience relationship difficulties as well, and also lower overall life satisfaction [00:07:00] according to the mental health foundation. So these things are really profound and really prevalent as well.
Mention just now that people that present as being neurodiverse often present with these things in, in, in really high numbers. So again, people with A DHD or autism up to 80% of people with A DHD and around 60 to 80% of autistic adults experience ongoing sleep. Difficulties according to Ika in 2021.
So we start to, to really start to, to just get a sense of how big and important a subject this is, both potentially as a symptom of something else, but also as a cause of mental health and relationship challenges and challenges around just general [00:08:00] wellbeing as well. The good news in all of that is that there is.
A lot that can be done to support people who struggle with sleep challenges. And we’ll co we’ll come onto a little bit later how organizations such as Hope Therapy and Counseling and yourself, Wendy, support clients with with insomnia and and sleep challenges more generally. So I think when we consider, just how common insomnia it is. It’s not at all surprising that we as therapists regularly find ourself working with people. Where there is some sort of concern. If we look at insomnia as a primary presenting issue, so this is where people come to counseling and the primary thing that they’re saying is, I want to work on my.
My insomnia or my [00:09:00] sleep challenges, estimates suggest that around 10 to 20% of clients who seek counseling, identify sleep problems or insomnia as their primary reason for reaching out. So often disruptive sleep is the presenting issue that most affects their wellbeing. That’s the thing that they are most concerned about.
And if we think about it in terms of insomnia as a secondary issue, we start to see that sleep difficulties are are even more common in those instances. And research and also clinical experience consistently shows that we might be looking at numbers. Between about 50 and 80% of people who present with present with some sort of mental health issue will report in insomnia [00:10:00] especially true for people who are managing things like anxiety, depression, trauma or some sort of adjustment to a significant life event.
So I hope that goes some way just towards reassuring people that if sleep difficulties are interfering with their day-to-day life and their general wellbeing. Firstly, they’re not alone. Secondly that it’s entirely appropriate and very common that people do reach out to professionals to get some form of assistance.
So I, I hope that just helps with that a little bit. Yes, it does. It’s really helpful, Ian, and it is quite amazing how high those stats are with people with insomnia. You really explained well the scale of the cons problems that we’re having. But what comes from that insights.
Is the question, why do people have insomnia in the first [00:11:00] place? Why does this happen? Yeah that’s a really important question. And really at the heart of things and there were lots of reasons why someone might. Developing insomnia in the first place. It’s rarely a result of just one single factor.
But broadly speaking, insomnia can be related to psychological physical lifestyle or environmental causes. Stress is one of the most common contributors. So whether whether that stress is very short term anxiety around a work deadline or an exam that somebody’s got to take or maybe slightly longer term, such as a relationship challenge or maybe some sort of ongoing health worry.
Anxiety and depression are closely linked to sleep difficulties, so feelings of worry or low mood can make it. Make it hard for the mind and the body [00:12:00] just to wind down at night. And medical conditions such as chronic pain, menopausal symptoms, digestive issues, or certain neurological diff differences can also play a really significant role as can medications that are prescribed for other health conditions as well.
Lifestyle factors are another important consideration as well. So for example ir, irregular sleeping patterns excessive use of screens before bed. Consuming. Caffeine or alcohol late on in the evening. Working shift patterns, all of those things can have an impact in terms of just disrupting the natural sleep wake cycle.
Additionally, environmental factors like noise or light, light pollution or maybe an uncomfortable sleep environment, they can all disrupt rest as well. I think it’s important to remember [00:13:00] that insomnia is also very personal, so what impacts one person may not affect another in the same way, and it’s not unusual for different causes to overlap as well.
So th those are just some ideas. Wendy, I hope that gives just some idea of the sorts of things that can that can contribute to, to to sleep challenges and insomnia. Yeah, very much there’s a lot there to think about, isn’t it? And affects so many people. And I noticed you did mention stress, anxiety, and lifestyle factors.
I’m just wondering if there’s certain times in life or particular groups of people who are more likely to experience insomnia. Yeah, really excellent question. Because insomnia often emerges at times of transition or times of particular vulnerability. So for instance, it’s really common for people to, to notice sleep [00:14:00] problems during periods of major life.
Change, and that might be moving house, that might be changing jobs. It might be for people that have experienced some form of bereavement. It could be hormonal changes such as these associated with menopause, for example. All of those things can increase the, like likelihood of of insomnia and certain.
Groups are more at risk too. People experiencing really high levels of work related stress, those are those who are neurodiverse, as we’ve already mentioned. Individuals living with chronic health conditions. All of those types of categories or groups of people can often find sleep particularly.
Elusive also people. Who would recognize themselves as [00:15:00] lonely or having a sense of isolation. Those can be significant factors for people as well. Especially if it leads to a sense of worry at night. And that, again, that’s where organizations such as Hope Therapy and Counseling Services, and I know yourself as well, Wendy, frequently support people from really.
Very wide ranging backgrounds and very wide ranging life situations. And our priority is just to help clients to explore what might be the underlying cause of of their sleep challenges, no matter how complex. All longstanding they may be and just to help support them in finding healthier and more sustainable patterns of rest.
Yeah, very helpful. Again, Ian and it’s really important isn’t it, to remind viewers and listeners that there is support available out there for these things and they don’t have to suffer alone. [00:16:00] It’s something that you can help with as well. And also myself, it’s a common problem that we come across, isn’t it?
Insomnia. Absolutely. So I just wonder if you can move on a little bit more and talk about the impact, insomnia on wellbeing. We’ve spoken a little bit about this already, but perhaps you could just say a little bit more about that. Yeah, absolutely. Again, a really good question and and actually really far reaching implications and implications that go far beyond just the bedroom.
Whilst it’s easy to think of it simply as a problem with sleep, the reality is that persistent sleep difficulties can have a really significant impact on a whole variety of different areas of life. When someone is regularly struggling to get enough restorative rest, it can affect both their physical health, but also their emotional wellbeing as well.
So if we think about it on a physical level ongoing sleep [00:17:00] deprivation can just lead to that sense of tiredness during the day. It can lead to difficulties with concentration. With lower levels of energy it can lead to reduction in immune function, so making people more susceptible to common illnesses.
And over time, chronic insomnia has even been linked to increased risk of certain health conditions, like high blood pressure and even heart conditions is as well. If we think about it from a mental health perspective insomnia can strongly influence mood. So often making people feel more irritable, more anxious feeling low and it can be hard to cope with the everyday stresses.
Or to bounce back from stress from stress, from setbacks in, in [00:18:00] the normal way. So many people notice that their problem solving skills and their and abilities start to reduce their memory can be affected. And that just makes daily tasks and decision making feel completely overwhelming for some people.
Relationships. Both personal relationships and work life can be impacted. So struggling with daytime fatigue and reduced emotional resiliency. Can sometimes mean withdrawing from social contact or finding it difficult to communicate with as others in as effective a manner as usual in the workplace.
Insomnia leads to decreased. Productivity or difficulty maintaining attention and focus and therefore productivity. So again, that’s where organizations like Hope Therapy and Counseling [00:19:00] Services and your, and yourself, Wendy can really just step in and incredibly helpful both for organizations but also for the individual as well.
So it’s important to remember that support is available. People don’t have to struggle with these things on their own, and it is possible very often to find meaningful improvements with the right level of support. Okay. Thank you for that, Ian. So what I’m hearing there is it sounds like insomnia can really affect almost every aspect of someone’s life, which is quite shocking, isn’t it?
And I’m just wondering if there may be some effects that people might not even expect or that often go unrecognized. Could you tell us a little bit more about Batian? Yeah, absolutely. So whilst many people, many clients immediately recognize the difficulties of tiredness and mood, some. Of the more subtle effects of insomnia can be [00:20:00] overlooked by people.
So for example, it’s common for people with long-term sleep problems, to experience changes in how they perceive and manage stress, and small problems can start to feel. Really quite insurmountable after repeated nights of poor sleep. And in insomnia can also contribute to a sense of isolation particularly through those who are awake when the rest of the world is asleep or who feel like no one else understands their challenge, their struggle.
So for some. Changes in appetite or motivation. I’ve also linked closely to other sleep challenges as well. And another point to make is that sometimes there’s a real impact on self-esteem and on confidence as [00:21:00] well. So when sleep seems out of the reach of somebody, despite someone’s absolute best efforts to get a good night’s sleep, people can become to feel as though they’re somehow failing. They’re not enough in some way, they’re out of control.
And that can just further affect their overall wellbeing. So it’s something that, that. We address very delicately in therapy. Just helping clients to see that their experience is not a personal failing and that support is available. And most importantly, I think recognizing and naming those challenges can be a real first step in taking back some of the control that people may have started to feel that they’ve lost taking back some of the control in terms of making positive changes.
So reaching out for help is a sign of [00:22:00] strength and we always say this is counselors to people. And there are effective counseling approaches out there that can really help support many individuals in terms of just improving sleep, and also just improving overall wellbeing as well.
Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Ian. You’ve given us a really good understanding of what insomnia is also how it might be caused and how prevalent it is within the counseling room, but even worse, much more in society generally. So is there an ideal time to reach out for help, do you think? Again, a really interesting question.
So I think knowing when to seek out for insomnia or sleep challenges more generally is just as important as understanding what causes it. So whilst one or two poor nights of sleep. It can be really common and usually nothing [00:23:00] nothing to be unduly concerned about. And certainly not suggestive of a need to call a counselor.
It may. Be time to consider professional support if sleep problems start to become a more, become more persistent or begin to interfere with daily functioning and daily life. So the type of signs that we might look out for just that. Feeling persistently exhausted during the day. Noticing that your mood or your concentration is being affected or struggling to cope in certain situations, struggling to cope with work or struggling to cope with personal responsibilities because of that.
That sort of ongoing broken sleep. So if you find yourself feeling increasingly anxious about [00:24:00] bedtime or if you are making lifestyle changes, but nothing really seems to help too much, those may all be indicators that some sort of support could be beneficial to you. And again, I think it’s really important.
That we remember that seeking help. Doesn’t mean that we failed to cope or that your sleep issue is not bad enough. I think too often people wait until they’re really struggling before reaching out. In reality, early support can make a huge difference and prevent more serious issues from developing down the line.
So just looking out for those sort of early signs and. And taking them seriously and just recognizing that a knowledgeable counselor, somebody that really understands insomnia and sleep challenges and has experience of working with those things can draw on a range of different [00:25:00] evidence-based approaches that are tailored to the unique.
Preferences and the unique needs of the individual. And they can work with you. They can work with you in the way that is gonna be most beneficial and helpful and convenient. So they can work online, they can, where there’s availability, they can work face to face. They can really be a very flexible way to meet the specific and the unique needs of the individual.
Okay. Thank you Ian for that. Thank you. And I’m just wondering whether some people might feel unsure about reaching out. For instance, they may be worried that their problem isn’t important enough or they’re just overwhelmed or not sure where to start. What would you say to someone who feels that way?
Yeah. And it is a really common concern. And it’s completely valid to, to feel a little bit hesitant about reaching out for support especially if your symptoms seem mild [00:26:00] compared to what you’ve heard from other people. But I think it’s really important to remember that insomnia exists on a spectrum and.
Any ongoing difficulty that is beginning to leave you feeling less than your best is worth. It is worth taking seriously. And being a addressed you don’t need to wait until things become so o overwhelming until things become so unmanageable. Professional support isn’t reserved for only the most severe cases.
So even if you, even if you just have. Questions or are wondering what steps you might take, you are very welcome to have that conversation with organizations such as ourselves or you, Wendy, and most professional counselors will offer an initial conversation, an initial [00:27:00] consultation often over the phone for the client’s convenience.
And to do that in a really relaxed and judgment free way. And just. Aiming to help you to understand your needs and the possible solutions that are out there and just doing that at your pace. So what I would say is if people are experiencing sleep problems wherever they are on that spectrum, if it’s beginning to affect your wellbeing no matter what the specific details, people deserve the chance to.
To explore support options. And sometimes simply talking with someone trained to help can be the first part of a really important process of just starting to make them feel more manageable and less overwhelming. Okay. Thank you for that, Ian. Thank you. So let’s just say that people have taken that step, [00:28:00] they’ve had a consultation and then they’ve decided they want to proceed.
What can people generally expect next then? Yeah and I think that’s, I think that’s really important to understand because. You will know yourself, Wendy. People can often question whether counseling is right for them. So it is a, it is important to, to understand a little bit about what that might actually involve.
So counseling or the or the counseling with the right person can offer a structured, an evidence-based. Form of support tailored to the individual session individual situation that a client finds themself in. And counseling can just help people to explore not only the symptoms of insomnia and sleep challenges, but also the underlying causes and the patterns that may be affecting sleep as [00:29:00] well.
And. Key way that counseling can help is just by. Just by providing a safe, a confidential space to talk through whatever challenges people are facing without fear of judgment. And together with your therapist, with your counselor, you can just start to identify the patterns and the triggers whether they’re emotional stresses.
Thoughts that keep you awake at night or aspects of daily routine that just might be influencing your ability to sleep. There are different approaches. One of the most widely recognizable approaches is is what’s called cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia. CBTI. So it’s a specific approach to CBT and CBTI helps you.[00:30:00]
Gently start to challenge the unhelpful thoughts and patterns the behaviors related to sleep and encourage and encourage healthier routines and coping strategies as well. It’s a. It’s a collaborative and a very practical approach, and is supported by a strong EV evidence base as well for improving the long-term sleep of people.
For some for some people techniques such as relax, relaxation training or hypnotherapy can be effective. Those can teach. People, ways to calm the mind, calm the body and just easing the anxious cycle that can be associated with insomnia. And if there are other life issues impacting sleep, such as anxiety, relationship concerns, maybe past [00:31:00] trauma there were approaches like interest intricate counseling.
More specialist approaches EMDR, which I know you are an expert in, Wendy Can can be really helpful as well. So it, it’s important to again, just to remember to work with a counselor who really understands that. Each individual person’s experience is unique. It’s important that your counseling journey will absolutely be tailored to your needs, your values, and your goals.
Working with somebody that’s experienced at working with these areas sometimes practical guidance on sleep habits and sleep routines is enough. At other times, deeper exploration of emotional or psychological factors might be might be really really useful for people as well. So the key message in, [00:32:00] in all of that is that you don’t have to manage these challenges alone.
Support is available out there. Okay. Thank you for that. And I’ve heard actually this, ha this can happen. And I’m aware that some people worry that the therapy they’ll get from insomnia just means, just think, gimme a list of sleep hygiene tips. Or they’re just not sure what to expect in a session.
What could you say to them about what actual counseling actually involves in? Yeah and again, a really common concern for people and entirely understandable. And I think, again, this is just stressing the importance of working with somebody that has experience of working with these things.
Whilst practical tips sometimes referred to as sleep hygiene tips can be. A really helpful starting point. [00:33:00] Counseling is, or at least should be much more than just that. So in sessions focused on insomnia. You shouldn’t just be given a list of do’s and don’ts. Instead. Counseling or therapy is about working together to understand the unique factors in your life in your mind that may be contributing to your poor sleep.
That process often begins with a really thorough explanation of of current sleep patterns of lifestyle, any pressures or wor worries that may be going on for people. And from there your counselor or therapist will just help to develop a more personalized strategy that fits with your specific circumstances.
With your values and your needs and that might be including learning relaxation [00:34:00] techniques. It might be gradually changing thought patterns that fuel anxiety around, around the bedtime experience, or just gently starting to adjust routines over, over a period of time. But the important part of it is that therapy is a supportive partnership there.
There’s no judgment. And everything should move at the pace of the individual client. So it’s not a case of you need to keep up with the counselor. It’s a case of the counselor working dynamically to be able to support. You and your unique needs and working at the pace that’s right for you. And if other life challenges are linked to your sleep, those can be explored too.
It’s not always about quick fixes, but it’s about building a toolkit that you can use long [00:35:00] after your counseling finishes. Okay. Thank you very much for that, Ian. That’s really valuable information and most appreciated. I’m wondering is there anything else that you think people might want or benefit from hearing regarding insomnia?
Yeah, so I think as we draw the episode to place, I just want to acknowledge. Just how challenging and how isolating insomnia can feel to people. Difficulty sleeping isn’t simply an inconvenience. It can touch on every single part of people’s lives.
It can impact our mood, it can impact our relationships, it can impact our natural energy to perform normal day-to-day tasks and. [00:36:00] I would just say that if anything that people have heard today feels familiar or has resonated with them with their own personal experiences all the experiences of a friend or a loved one, just to know that you are not alone.
There are, as we talked about right at the beginning. Sleep challenges and insomnia affect so many different people from all walks of life and it’s really valid and entirely normal for people to reach out. For support. There are experienced counselors, experienced therapists out there who work with this who can help you to just explore the uniqueness of the difficulties of your situation in a safe, in a confidential way, in an [00:37:00] understanding space where.
You start to look at the the underlying roots of your insomnia and sleep challenges and start to develop coping strategies that are right for your unique needs.
Sometimes it’s simply about talking with somebody. Who truly listens. But whatever the situation, just knowing that support is available both online and and in person where possible as well. And that people don’t have to wait until it reaches a crisis point. People are welcome to reach out at whatever point feels appropriate to them.
And small steps, including seeking information or just having a compassionate conversation can be a [00:38:00] fundamentally positive turning point in terms of starting to address the issues that associated with. Okay. Thank you for that, Ian. I’m just wondering if people have listened to today’s podcast and feel they might benefit from taking the next step, what should they do next?
Yeah I. There are organizations like Hope Therapy and Counseling Services who work with sleep challenges and insomnia. Both as a primary presentation and also as a secondary presentation. We have a whole team of counselors dotted around in a whole variety of different places.
So often we can work face to face or online with people depending upon on, on. Preference of the individual. And it’s an area that we have a huge amount of of experience of. Our website is www.hopefulminds.co uk. We have a whole variety of free [00:39:00] resources up upon the website. People are very welcome to, to take a look.
So that’s www.hopefulminds.co uk. If people wanted to want to book in for a a free chat with one of the the team, they’re very welcome to do that. There’s, as I say, it’s completely free. There’s no obligation to proceed to counseling, but it just gives people the opportunity to talk through their challenges and to understand a little bit more about what’s available.
And and Wendy. You clearly are very experienced therapist as well. I know you, you work with insomnia on a regular basis, both as a primary presentation, but also as a as a secondary presentation as well. So I wonder if you can just tell people a little bit about yourself and what you offer to to support clients.
So I regularly work with people with insomnia because as you said, it’s often a very common factor in the people that I see as well. So whether it’s [00:40:00] a primary concern or a secondary concern, I’m more than happy to see people with that problem. If you want to get in touch with me, you can just go to my website.
Wendy cast.com just type my name and the website should just come up. Obviously on social media as well. And yeah, if anyone wants an informal conversation, they’re very welcome to get hold of me and I do online and face-to-face. So Ian, I just want to take this opportunity to thank you so much for your amazing critique on Insomnia.
It’s such an important subject, isn’t it? And not talked about enough, really. So thank you for just spending a lot of time doing all that research and explaining to us a little bit more about why we can’t sleep. So thank you everybody for listening. Very much appreciate it. And don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and share this episode with anyone who could use it all.
Help in understanding why they can’t sleep at night. Thank you very much. Thank you, Wendy, and thank you everyone.